"Would be better to source cheap energy directly from Russia"
An industrialized nation needs cheap energy, says Oskar Lafontaine on Maischberger and argues in favour of being supplied by Russia again. Former Federal President Gauck calls the demand "grotesque".
Tuesday evening on ARD. Sandra Maischberger has two former politicians as guests who do not speak to each other on the show. That's a shame, because they would probably have a lot to say to each other: the former Minister President of Saarland and Federal Finance Minister Oskar Lafontaine and former Federal President Joachim Gauck. Lafontaine, a former member of the SPD and co-founder and former chairman of the Left Party, turned eighty just over two months ago. Gauck, who was briefly a member of the GDR civil rights party Neues Forum and a Protestant pastor, is three years older. Gauck can't do much with the Left, that's because of his history. Lafontaine left the Left Party a year and a half ago. Today he is supporting his wife Sahra Wagenknecht in founding a new party.
Lafontaine resigned from his post as Finance Minister under Chancellor Gerhard Schröder in a dispute and left the SPD a few years later. He has since made his peace with Schröder and considers him to be the better chancellor compared to Olaf Scholz. "He recognized, for example, that an industrial nation needs cheap energy. Scholz doesn't seem to understand that," Lafontaine explains his view.
No weapons to Ukraine
He criticizes the fact that Germany still obtains energy from Russia via detours. He refers to data from the Federal Statistical Office from September of this year. According to this, oil supplies from India have increased twelvefold compared to 2022. According to a UN report, India sources large quantities of crude oil from Russia. Experts believe it is "plausible" that Germany and other European countries are buying Russian oil from India at very high prices. "It would be better to buy cheap energy directly from Russia," says Lafontaine.
Joachim Gauck takes a completely different view. It is not only a moral imperative, but also a matter of political common sense not to do business or even just talk with a power that has made an enemy of another country through an unprovoked attack. "To overlook this and say that we could also have cheap oil from such a war criminal is grotesque."
To get to grips with the current budget crisis, Lafontaine proposes savings, particularly in the military sector. "When I see people saying that we are doubling our donations to Ukraine, I ask myself: can they not draw any conclusions from reality?" In almost two years, the West has achieved nothing by supplying weapons to the country attacked by Russia. Many people have died and Ukraine has been completely destroyed. Lafontaine: "If you have taken a path that turns out to be wrong, you have to correct it." Giving billions to Ukraine is not justifiable.
"The right thing to do would be to ask Ukraine: 'How long do you have the strength to fight for a goal that you may not achieve? In the war, Ukraine, supported by the West, is the victim, Russia is the aggressor. "If the will for peace were to say: 'You are so strong, we won't even defend ourselves', then freedom is at an end."
Criticism of the debt brake
Lafontaine criticized the introduction of the debt brake as a mistake in current politics. It should either be abolished or reformed. "I don't know of any other country that has this nonsense," says the politician. The debt brake has proven to be an obstacle to investment. If it were abolished, this would not automatically mean that more debt would have to be incurred. At the same time, Lafontaine calls for tax cuts for the middle classes, but says that they should be increased for the "very, very rich".
The politicians and journalists sitting on the panel that evening all agree on one thing: They do not believe in new elections, as proposed by Bavarian Prime Minister Söder. "If everyone at the table behaves rationally, it won't happen because none of the parties currently in government can have an interest in going to elections," analyzed RTL and NTV political director Nikolaus Blome at the start of the show. However, he qualified: "If someone starts to lose it because they can't go on and don't know what to do, then they get up and leave. And then there are new elections."
"I agree with Blome on that," says Lafontaine. In addition, the politician does not believe that there is too much interest in new elections, not even in the CDU/CSU. "There are certainly some in the CDU who say behind closed doors: If it's our turn, things will be just as bad. And then they might have to say: We have to change the debt brake after all."
Lafontaine suggests that buying energy directly from Russia could provide cheaper options, contradicting Gauck's view that doing business with a country involved in an unprovoked attack on Ukraine is "grotesque." Despite the controversy, Lafontaine proposes reducing military spending and halting arms deliveries to Ukraine, as they have not yielded any significant results in nearly two years.
Gauck and Lafontaine have conflicting opinions on sourcing energy from Russia. While Lafontaine emphasizes the need for cheap energy, Gauck sees it as a moral and political mistake to do business with a country that has attacked Ukraine without provocation.
Lafontaine criticizes the debt brake, a significant policy in current politics, calling it an obstacle to investment. He advocates for tax cuts for the middle class and a subsequent increase for the "very, very rich," but opposes the idea of new elections proposed by Bavarian Prime Minister Söder.
Source: www.ntv.de
