Trump is entirely to blame for the violence
*Historian Timothy Snyder expresses grave concerns about the future of the United States should Republican candidate Donald Trump win the election. Snyder, a Permanent Fellow at the Vienna Institute for Human Sciences, fears the end of the American republic, civil unrest, and further substantial restrictions of women’s rights. Regarding Russia’s war in Ukraine, Snyder states that using the term 'peace' before 'victory' is meaningless.
ntv.de:Professor Snyder, is the recent assassination attempt on Donald Trump a turning point in U.S. history and are we experiencing a new era of political extremism and violence?
Timothy Snyder: I doubt it's a turning point. Americans tend to forget quickly. Plus, since the shooter was a Republican, it won't have as much impact.
To what extent has Donald Trump himself contributed to this political climate, leading to violence and ultimately death?
He bears full responsibility. Democrats will express concern, and the press will advise them to tone down their rhetoric. It's an easier approach for the press in my country than acknowledging that those who bring violence to the political forefront, like Trump, are altering the entire situation.
How does this impact the U.S. election?
It's uncertain. But my sense is not much. Trump selected Pence as his running mate, which signifies the far right. He can't use the assassination attempt as a unifying issue since Pence has already incorrectly blamed Democrats.
How is Donald Trump shaping history?
For Americans, I believe it's essential to remember that Trump embodies certain trends in American history. He essentially represents a trend of glorifying wealth or, in this case, someone who feigns wealth. Secondly, he represents a deep-rooted racist current in American history. There's an American tendency to ask, "How could this happen?" But it's rooted in our history. Furthermore, it's not just a matter of how Trump changes history; it's also a matter of where he came from. And if we're discussing world history, then we must acknowledge that he also comes from the era of unregulated digital technology, which primarily functions by manipulating emotions.
What do you mean by that?
In the U.S., digital media is much less regulated than in Europe. And the consequences are evident. I believe social media is essentially fascist. It's a type of fascist incubator. It's not entertainment; rather, it's a change in the means of cognitive production, which alters the way politics functions.
What happens if Trump wins?
If he wins, I believe the U.S. federal government will essentially disintegrate and cease to function. There will be parts of the U.S. government that refuse to obey illegal or unethical orders. The plan called 'Project 2025' is to dismiss every American civil servant and replace them with party loyalists. For both of these reasons, the American federal government will likely cease to function, and there will probably be civil unrest. This would mark a significant shift in U.S. history, as it would mean the transformation or perhaps the end of the American republic.
How does a country slide into a dictatorship? Can you see signs of that happening in the U.S. already?
Yes, I can see them. There are American states that are essentially one-party, quasi-authoritarian regimes where your vote doesn't truly matter. Many fundamental rights, especially for women, no longer exist. We're witnessing the Supreme Court, the head of one of the branches of government, essentially becoming a political arm of the executive or a political arm of oligarchs. Democracy can only survive if you value it, are aware of it, and work for it. But if you believe that God, the market, the constitution, history, or human nature will bring you democracy, you'll lose it.
You mentioned that many basic women's rights are under attack in the U.S. Is it far-fetched to say that there are parallels between certain parts of the Republican Party and the Taliban in the way they want to control women? What dangers do you see regarding women's rights and 'Project 2025'?
This relates to your previous question about the underlying causes. I believe masculine anxiety is a fundamental cause. The men who have risen to the top of these anti-democratic movements are men with this masculine anxiety. Trump is essentially a hyper-performance heterosexual, and this is politically effective because it reassures other men that there's nothing to worry about. And if you don't understand what it means to be a man, you take it out on the women, or you take it out on the gays, or you take it out on the trans people. That's an inherent aspect of this type of politics: you have lost confidence in yourself as a man, so you need to control someone else. But it's not just a political tool; it's also a political goal. I agree with you; 'Project 2025' outlines a vision of the world where the female body is something that should be constantly surveilled. What you have here is a fantasy of surveillance and control.
Let's also discuss Russia's war against Ukraine. You recently stated that we're now in the year 1938, and Ukraine is making sure it doesn't turn 1939. What did you mean by that?
When I say we're in the year 1938, I mean that we're witnessing a situation where a large power is trying to redraw the map of Europe through violence. In 1938, Germany annexed Austria, and the rest of Europe stood by and did nothing. Ukraine is currently facing a similar situation, where Russia is attempting to annex parts of its territory. If Europe and the U.S. don't intervene, we could be looking at a repeat of 1939, when Germany invaded Poland and World War II began. Ukraine is working to prevent that from happening.
In September 1938, Czechoslovakia's allies permitted Germany to annex Czechoslovak territory. The Czechoslovak government opted not to resist Germany. Consequently, the way the Second World War commenced was significantly influenced. When Germany subsequently attacked Poland in 1939, it did so from the South. Slovak soldiers, Czech weapons, and Czech tanks, which were arguably the best in the world, were all employed by Germany. Additionally, Germany gained control of Czech wealth.
When the Ukrainians decided to fight in 2022, they were not only defending themselves but also preventing a recurrence of this situation. If Europe encounters a victorious Russia, it will face Russia not only militarily but also economically, with Ukrainian hydrocarbons, mineral wealth, agriculture, and military technology, as well as Ukrainian soldiers.
The Ukrainians have been keeping us in a 1938-like scenario for two and a half years now. It's crucial that we recognize this. We must understand that we are experiencing a world war, but only one country is actively participating, while the rest of us are contributing insignificant resources in return for our daily lives in Connecticut or Germany.
How do you perceive Germany from a historical perspective? Is the country taking a more active role in supporting Ukraine, or is it falling short?
Both. Historical considerations are essential in German foreign and domestic policy. However, the discussions are not always well-founded. Fundamentally, Germans still don't fully comprehend that the Second World War was about conquering Ukraine. They don't fully grasp that major German war crimes during the war occurred in Ukraine, including the Holocaust, the starvation of prisoners of war, and the starvation of cities.
Have the historical implications not been grasped?
Ukraine's resistance to a genocidal fascist invasion provided Germany with a unique historical opportunity to apply historical knowledge to foreign policy. I believe this potential has not been fully realized because the historical context has not been fully understood.
However, there are also positive aspects of German foreign policy?
Germany has generally moved in the right direction. However, being on the right side is not enough. During the Second World War, it wasn't enough for the Americans and the British to simply be on the right side; they had to win. The lesson Germans draw from the Second World War cannot be about peace. Peace was not the outcome; victory and defeat were. Using the term 'peace' before 'victory' doesn't make any sense.
You don't achieve peace without victory. I believe this is a mental and conceptual leap that Germans and Americans must make together.
Professor Snyder, thank you for the interview and for your time.
Philipp Sandmann to Timothy Snyder
- Regarding the assessment on Donald Trump, historian Timothy Snyder believes that his victory in the US Presidency Election 2024 could lead to the disintegration of the American federal government and potential civil unrest.
- Timothy Snyder, expressing concerns about the recent political climate in the United States, points out that Donald Trump bears full responsibility for contributing to an atmosphere of violence and extremism, leading to incidents like the assassination attempt.
- In response to questions about Vladimir Putin and Russia's war in Ukraine, Timothy Snyder asserts that using the term 'peace' before 'victory' is meaningless and that the situation needs to be addressed.
- In the context of women's rights, Timothy Snyder discusses the trends in American history that Donald Trump embodies, including a deep-rooted racist current and a representative of unregulated digital technology, which manipulates emotions in politics.
