"The party is now getting louder again"

"The party is now getting louder again"

Lars Klingbeil is running for a second term as chairman at the SPD party conference, which will take place in Berlin from December 8 to 10. In an interview with ntv.de, the 45-year-old explains his plans for the Social Democrats, who are now also preparing for the upcoming federal elections. Following the ruling on the debt brake, he demands "fundamental" talks from the coalition partners in the traffic light coalition - and is tough on the CDU/CSU for their jubilation at the verdict.

ntv.de: Mr. Klingbeil, before we talk about the upcoming SPD federal party conference: How do you assess the Federal Constitutional Court's ruling on the debt brake with a little distance?

Lars Klingbeil: The ruling is a challenge for politics as a whole, for the federal government, but also for the federal states. I can't understand the CDU/CSU's howls of triumph. The budgets of CDU-led states such as NRW or Schleswig-Holstein could also face problems as a result.

But isn't the CDU/CSU right when it says that its view has been confirmed by Karlsruhe?

The CDU/CSU can perhaps be pleased that it has won a legal point. However, the economic policy dimension of this ruling and the political challenges affect all levels that bear responsibility in our country, including the CDU and CSU. It's no use at all for the CDU/CSU to make fun of it. We need to find a new basis for making the necessary investments in our country's economic strength and at the same time ensure that all citizens can afford the climate-neutral transition.

How does the Ampel intend to ensure that the projects financed by the Climate and Transformation Fund can still be financed in the short term?

What is clear is that we want to adopt the budget in December so that everything can then proceed in an orderly fashion from January 1, 2024. At the same time, we are working on a new business plan for the Climate and Transformation Fund. I don't want to sugarcoat the situation, but I still believe that we have the strength to get this done as a traffic light. We will have to talk about many fundamental issues.

Also about possible additional revenue, for example through higher taxes or the removal of subsidies?

I said yes, we will have to talk about many fundamental issues. As the SPD, we have a plan on how to finance necessary future investments. For example, with the help of a German fund through which the state and private investors can invest together. Or in which mega-heirs participate more and we change the debt rules. We are aware that not everything can necessarily be implemented overnight in the traffic light coalition. But now it's also about who has good ideas and arguments. And we have them.

What does the ruling mean for the funding framework for the Heating Act? Will everyone be able to apply for grants for heating modernization in 2024, as announced?

The Federal Government made it clear immediately after the ruling: All promises made to citizens when heating systems are replaced or houses are newly insulated will continue to apply. And we as the SPD will also pay very close attention to ensuring that the financial support we agreed with the Heating Act is kept. We will not let people down in this transition.

When we spoke two years ago, you said: "I want to shape my party." Two years have passed and you are running for a second term as party chairman. To what extent have you implemented your plan?

I would say that I have shaped the party. After Russia's brutal attack on Ukraine, I put the SPD's foreign and security policy on a new footing, which included openly addressing the mistakes of the past and drawing consequences for the future. These were very formative decisions for my party; clear statements had to be made and breaks had to be made. I am grateful for the broad support on this path and would like us to continue on it together in the coming years.

Your co-chair Saskia Esken has tabled a key motion on the future of education policy, and the SPD Executive Committee has also jointly tabled the motion "Together for a strong Germany".

We have been working on this together with experts over the past few months. We have a plan for how Germany can remain a strong country despite the multiple crises and upheavals that lie ahead. We want one million new jobs to be created through climate protection and for the federal and state governments to jointly invest more money in education and infrastructure. We all know that our country is lagging behind in key areas.

What other successes can you use to recommend yourself for re-election?

The last two years have been characterized by many crises and challenges that were unforeseeable. But we have managed to get people through it well, with three relief packages and the gas and electricity price brakes. It was always clear to me that I would not leave any coalition committee without a commitment to cushioning the rise in prices and ensuring fairness. The SPD has prevailed when it comes to skimming off excess profits from companies.

They point to the many unplanned issues. Continuity, on the other hand, was mainly due to the calm and unity within the SPD. Is that also to your credit?

That's for others to judge. But I am convinced that the federal election campaign we won and Olaf Scholz's success were made possible by the cohesion at the top of the party. For me personally, team play has a very high value.

However, so much unity sometimes makes it difficult to criticize one's own government.

I see it differently. Unity does not mean that we always agree on everything, but that we struggle internally to find the best way forward and then represent it together externally. I believe that is what citizens expect from us. Over the last two years in government, we have kept our social democratic promises: 12 euros minimum wage, stable pensions, the expansion of housing benefit. With the party conference, the party is now becoming louder again when it comes to the question of how we want to shape the future beyond the legislative period.

Two years ago, you also said that the SPD should aim for an even better election result in 2025. Has this goal been abandoned in view of the polls?

People are busy with so many things in their everyday lives right now, but not with the question of who they will vote for in two years' time. In Olaf Scholz, we have a Federal Chancellor who will have tackled a lot of things in this country with his government by the time of the election campaign. Then it will be time to settle accounts and I am quite sure that there is a lot of potential for the SPD.

Is the SPD's stubbornly low poll rating solely due to the external image of the traffic light coalition or are your voters also disappointed with your party in a very concrete way?

The public dispute in the coalition has overshadowed many things and caused people to turn away. But the substance of the Ampel is right. For a long time, there has not been a federal government that has had to overcome so many crises in its first two years. We have guided the country well through these difficult times and at the same time modernized it in some areas.

In the lead motion, you call for the debt rule to be relaxed, a special tax for the super-rich and an increase in inheritance tax, among other things. Do you see any chance of one of these plans being passed in the current legislative period?

We are marking our position as a party with the party conference. And that is more than the compromises in the current government with the Greens and FDP. But if Christian Lindner or Robert Habeck realize after our party conference that what the SPD has come up with is very sensible, then we will of course implement it together immediately. We are clear about what we want.

In the public perception, the SPD's leading voice is the Federal Chancellor and you hear nothing from him - neither on the reform of the debt brake nor on a higher inheritance tax or special levies. How does that go together?

We have a social democratic chancellor who is acting on the basis of the coalition agreement. But rest assured: we are thinking about the future together with Olaf Scholz and are also planning the ways to get there together. There is close coordination and yet clarity about the different roles we currently have.

In a Forsa survey commissioned by RTL and ntv, 55 percent of respondents were in favor of the SPD switching to a grand coalition, including 54 percent of SPD supporters. What do you say to them?

We currently have a coalition of three parties that all want to make changes. We are also engaging in social debates and that can sometimes be jarring, but we are changing more than has been possible with the CDU/CSU in recent years. Nevertheless, I think it's right to always seek to close ranks with the CDU and CSU across all levels in such challenging times.

The migration debate recently seemed to be all about limiting immigration. The agreement reached at the Conference of Minister Presidents on accommodation and integration costs was rather lost in the shuffle. Has this created an imbalance?

Everything belongs together. We are currently making fundamental changes to migration policy by massively expanding the opportunities for skilled workers to come to Germany. But it is also important that the state works when it comes to ensuring that those who cannot stay here leave the country. And the most important thing for us is integration via the labor market. Anyone who comes to us and has prospects here should get a job as quickly as possible.

So there is no imbalance in the debate?

We don't play politics with resentment on the backs of people who want to build a better life for themselves in Germany. We ensure that the state functions and that integration is successful.

Migration is also likely to be a huge issue for the SPD state associations in the east, where three state elections are due in 2024. Are you prepared for the AfD to become the strongest party in Brandenburg, Saxony and Thuringia?

The strength of the AfD is not a situation that I am preparing for, it is a situation that we as the SPD are fighting against. With a very clear course, which means: we solve people's everyday problems, we take care of affordable rents, sufficient daycare places and decent wages. The Höckes and Weidels have no solutions to these challenges. They want people to be miserable. That is the basis of their business. That's why they set groups against each other.

Sebastian Huld spoke to Lars Klingbeil

1. In the context of the upcoming federal elections, Lars Klingbeil, the chairman of the SPD, is demanding "fundamental" talks from the coalition partners in the traffic light coalition about the debt brake ruling.
2. Following the Federal Constitutional Court's ruling on the debt brake, Lars Klingbeil criticizes the jubilation of the CDU/CSU, stating that budgets in CDU-led states like NRW and Schleswig-Holstein could also face problems.
3. Saskia Esken, co-chair of the SPD, has tabled a key motion on the future of education policy, and the SPD Executive Committee has also jointly tabled the motion "Together for a strong Germany".
4. In an interview, Lars Klingbeil discusses the funding framework for the Heating Act, assuring that all promises made to citizens when heating systems are replaced or houses are newly insulated will continue to apply.
5. During the SPD party conference, Klingbeil emphasizes the need for the party to become louder again when it comes to shaping the future beyond the legislative period, criticizing the public dispute in the coalition that has overshadowed many things.

Source: www.ntv.de