"I'm sure it won't be bloody"

"I'm sure it won't be bloody"

Budget politicians in the Bundestag can expect a "crazy mountain of work" on Thursday night, as the chairman of the Budget Committee, CDU politician Helge Braun, says. In the adjustment session, also known as the "night of the long knives", the final touches are made to the federal budget. There isa change this year because the ruling of the Federal Constitutional Court has turned everything upside down. The final vote will not take place next night - instead, a hearing of experts will be held next week. The former Minister of the Chancellery explains the consequences in an interview.

ntv.de: Mr. Braun, tonight is the meeting to finalize the 2024 budget. That sounds dry, but it's also known as the night of the long knives. Why so bloody?

Helge Braun: I'm pretty sure it won't be bloody, but this adjustment meeting is of course a special one after yesterday's Constitutional Court ruling. Normally, the background to the adjustment meeting is quite simple: we go through the budget in its entirety and look at all the issues that arise. Our country is so dynamic that financing gaps can still appear at the last minute. That's why we have to look at all areas again at the very end to make any final changes. That is a huge amount of work. The Federal Government alone has given us 480 pages of amendments for the last night - even without a new ruling. I think that at least a similar number will come from Parliament.

There are no knives, but at some point people will start shouting at each other?

No, we didn't have a bad atmosphere in the last sessions either. But it's a night of decisions. It's not a general debate. In the end, it's about every single position. Money up, money down, yes, no. That's why it's a very tense and concentrated way of working. Last time, we had over 3,000 individual votes in this one night. At the very end, we interrupt the meeting and then the Ministry of Finance calculates everything again so that it is clear that we have complied with the debt brake.

The meeting is overshadowed by the ruling of the Federal Constitutional Court, which prohibited the reallocation of coronavirus loans for climate protection. This means that 60 billion euros will be lost to the traffic light. What does this mean for the clean-up meeting?

The Constitutional Court ruling is very far-reaching. It didn't just base its decision on the fact that in the new year, people had reached into the old year's coffers once again. It also made two other points clear: debts must be counted towards the debt brake every year, even if they come from special funds. In addition, the earmarking must be justified much more precisely. In addition to the fact that the supplementary budget was declared null and void, it is also necessary to examine how and when future expenditure from debt-financed special funds must be offset against the debt brake.

Does this mean you are losing something in the current budget?

That does indeed make our deliberations difficult. After lengthy discussions in the Budget Committee, we are going into the adjustment meeting today and next week there will be an expert hearing. Then we will find out: is it the case, as Olaf Scholz said in the government's questioning, that it is only about the business plan for the Climate and Transformation Fund? Or is it the case that the financing of other debt pools is also affected by the ruling? Then the challenge would be much greater. The Budget Committee is faced with the dilemma of drawing up a budget by the end of the year if possible and not adopting anything that does not yet take into account the consequences of the ruling.

This means that in addition to the 480 pages of amendments, there is now the big question mark of whether climate protection projects that were to be financed from the KTF will now be funded from the federal budget?

The government's basic decision to block the KTF and to remove the 60 billion credit authorization from the supplementary budget from the KTF, but otherwise not to reprioritize the budget, means that the very things that are in the KTF are now subject to financial risk. That is why there is a lot of criticism of the lawsuit and the ruling out of concern for climate protection. But just because climate protection was wrongly financed, it should not automatically be the area that suffers. That must not be the political response. We can only partially respond to this with the means chosen by the Federal Government.

The ruling comes one day before the adjustment meeting. How can this be taken into account so close to the deadline?

That remains to be seen. After all, the Federal Constitutional Court has handed down its ruling before the budget negotiations have been concluded. Otherwise, all issues would have been postponed until the next budget. We have decided not to hold the final vote as usual in the adjustment session, but only a week later after the hearing. I hope that by then we will have more clarity about the legal consequences of the ruling. Provisional budget management due to a delay would be bad, a federal budget that does not comply with the constitution would be worse.

You seem surprisingly relaxed about the situation.

I am an emergency doctor and intensive care physician by training. The more difficult the situation is, the calmer and more focused you have to approach it.

So the budget is in intensive care?

The government's spending plans in the three-digit billion range are in question. This is a fundamental turning point for the government and what it has set out to do. That's why this is a very, very serious situation.

It would not have been an easy session even without the ruling. The citizens' allowance will cost 3.3 billion euros more, and aid to Ukraine is to increase by four billion euros. Where will the money come from?

The problem is that the finance minister has already overstretched the budget in many places. All the possible budget-related shifts have already been used. Now we really need to talk seriously about priorities and necessities. It is clear that support for Ukraine cannot be put on the back burner. But then the government must clarify what will be cut instead.

There is no other option than to cut the plans. The FDP will not go along with tax increases. Suspending the debt brake is not an option. There is no majority for a theoretically conceivable abolition of the debt brake.

That's what I mean by setting priorities, yes.

Chancellor Angela Merkel, whose Chancellery Minister you were, was known for sleeping in before important meetings. Will you do the same?

I would have done that if there hadn't been a ruling. But given the dynamic situation, that could be difficult. There are so many unanswered questions that a lot still needs to be discussed.

Volker Petersen spoke to Helge Braun

1. Due to the ruling of the Federal Constitutional Court, the budget amendments presented by the Federal Government for the adjustment meeting will now need to take into account the prohibition on reallocating coronavirus loans for climate protection, which could result in a loss of 60 billion euros for the traffic light coalition's budget policy.
2. As the chairman of the Budget Committee, Helge Braun leads the Union parliamentary group in finalizing the federal budget during the adjustment session, known as the "night of the long knives." However, the ruling of the Federal Constitutional Court has complicated this process, and experts will be consulted next week to address the consequences of the ruling.
3. After the Constitutional Court ruling, the Budget Committee, under the leadership of CDU politician Helge Braun, will need to work closely with the traffic light coalition to determine how climate protection projects that were to be financed from the KTF will now be funded from the federal budget to ensure compliance with budgetary constraints and the debt brake.

Source: www.ntv.de