"An absolute impediment, an entirely undemocratic deviation"
The Uproar from Young Union Head Winkel over Wagenknecht's Intervention in Thuringia Talks with the CDU has Caused Stir. He Disputes a Coalition in an Interview with ntv.de before Germany Day Weekend. He Demands More Firmness in Migration and Ukraine Issues.
ntv.de: Mr. Winkel, for Germany Day, the Young Union will meet in Halle, and CDU leader Merz will also be present to give a speech. Were you also a supporter of Merz as the chancellor candidate?
Johannes Winkel: The Young Union has been backing Merz for some time now. Naturally, we're delighted that he's our chancellor candidate. As the Young Union, we've fought for a stronger, more conservative profile, and we've achieved it.
Your stance on a coalition with the Greens after the federal election? Bavarian Minister-President Söder was against it, but Merz is neutral.
The Green-Black alliance is far beyond my comprehension. At the federal level, the contents are simply too disparate. If the Greens drastically change their stance, negotiations may be possible, but it's a longshot.
Would a partnership between Habeck and Merz be feasible?
Merz represents the social market economy, while Habeck advocates for the ecological planned economy. So, no.
What message do you anticipate from Merz at Germany Day?
From Germany Day, the message will be sent out that we, as the Young Union and young generation, stand by Merz as our chancellor candidate. This should also serve as the kickoff into the election year. Of course, we expect Merz to outline his vision for the future of the young generation. We're eagerly waiting for it. Various topics, such as defense, combating Islamism, and intergenerational justice, are at stake.
The authorities have dealt with immigration this year by enforcing border controls, facilitating deportations, and establishing the EU-wide joint asylum system GEAS. Is the government doing better than its reputation suggests?
Baerbock and Faeser have stalled and neglected GEAS for months. In the end, GEAS doesn't bring much. The federal government has shown a reluctance towards migration policy that is not only damaging to migration policy but to our democracy as a whole.
What do you mean?
Various representatives of the traffic light coalition have repeatedly claimed that their hands are tied. If the legislator itself suggests that the legal system is not modifiable, it's like a surrender.
But if that's the case? If the Basic Law or EU law sets limited boundaries?
The constitution and EU law may not be unchangeable, but it's the legislator's responsibility to change the laws. If politics themselves frame the system as inflexible, one shouldn't be surprised when people eventually question the system's legitimacy. That's a significant issue.
The traffic light coalition has passed a security package, but the Union has blocked it in the Bundesrat because it's not far-reaching enough. Doesn't it make more sense to at least pass something now, and then add more later?
It was remarkable how Merz took the initiative earlier and compelled the government to act. However, it no longer makes sense to share joint responsibility for abandoned security packages. At the end of the day, we need to control immigration. We haven't had control for ten years. By the way, on the topic of European law: Poland's prime minister suspended the asylum law within two days, demonstrating political leadership. The EU law in Poland is the same as ours.
Should Germany also suspend the asylum law, like Poland?
Yes, definitely. Germany should not leave Poland in the lurch. Scholz appears to lack this leadership.
You support a quota system for refugees. Does the individual asylum right still have relevance for that?
An individual enforceable asylum right makes sense when it comes to individuals who are politically persecuted. It was intended for that purpose in the 50s and 60s.
But the parallels with the Jews who fled from the Nazis and were rejected in numerous countries also apply. They were also victims of persecution.
One could design it in such a way that nations volunteer to accept quotas. For example, the Ukrainians. I am convinced that there would be no fewer Ukrainians in Germany if there were no individual asylum right. One can also help people in this way. However, can we maintain the individual right to asylum in times of mass migration for economic reasons? I doubt it. With the individual right to asylum, we make a promise that we cannot keep and do not want to keep.
Lindner has proposed ending financial support for Ukrainian refugees, offering only benefits that are somewhere between asylum seekers and citizens' income recipients. Do you agree?
Those who have never contributed to the social security system should not be equated with those who have done so for decades. In that sense, it's a proposal worth considering. However, the migration issue will not be resolved through a competition in social benefits. Rather, it's about controlling immigration.
You advocate for a third-country regulation. What do you think of Italy's model? They send some migrants to camps in Albania, where the decision on admission is made.
That's a potential solution. The automation: If you somehow manage to reach Europe, you'll end up in Germany's social system, which might no longer exist. If that system collapses, immigration rates will also decrease. I'm fully confident of this. It's about the message: Not everyone can enter the German social system without restriction.
What's your stance, as the Young Union, on the CDU's attempts to declare an incompatibility against the BSW?
(No response)
Given the prospect of a new party, it's wise to talk things over. However, what Wagenknecht did now was completely out of line, a highly undemocratic move. From Berlin, she classified a Thuringian negotiated paper as not worthy of approval. Now, I'm intrigued to see the state associations' reactions. Will they let Wagenknecht dictate from afar? Is the BSW a democratic party that allows state associations to express their views and advocate for their states' concerns? Or is it all about Wagenknecht herself? If the state associations simply bow to the leader from Berlin, there can be no coalition with Wagenknecht's Bündnis. It will eventually lead to an incompatibility decision.
Do you think there will be coalitions in Thuringia and Saxony?
That relies on the state associations' reactions. At the moment, it's hard to imagine. I believe Wagenknecht doesn't even want to govern, so she shouldn't be forced to.
How did you find Kretschmer, Woidke, and Voigt's joint statement, which called for more negotiations? Did it seem like it was ordered by Wagenknecht?
I read it thoroughly. Individually, the statements are hard to attack, but as a whole, a unpleasant feeling emerged.
What's your take on the Ukraine issue? Should the country also surrender territory for peace?
It's about Ukraine's sovereignty. But the condition for negotiations isn't the ceasing of weapon deliveries. Without weapons, Ukraine would cease to exist within two months. On the contrary, if we want negotiations, we must put Ukraine in a position to negotiate, not just surrender unconditionally. Scholz and Mützenich are starving Ukraine. If you've been to Bucha, it's a disgrace. The way the SPD prevented effective aid is scandalous.
Should Germany deliver the Taurus cruise missile?
Yes, we should have delivered it from the start.
Merz suggested we ask Putin to stop bombing daycares and hospitals and threaten him with the Taurus. So, you don't think we should set such conditions?
If we want to support Ukraine against Russia, we should do so directly. We need to make a firm decision. Do we want to support Ukraine or not? If yes, we should do it wholeheartedly, not half-heartedly.
The Young Union of Germany has previously endorsed CDU leader Merz as their chancellor candidate. At Germany Day, Merz will speak at a meeting organized by the Young Union in Halle.
In response to the question about a potential coalition with the Greens, Johannes Winkel, the head of the Young Union, expresses skepticism due to the disparity in their political contents.
