Priests on exorcism: "Most people don't need exorcism, they need therapy"

Jörg Müller - Priests on exorcism: "Most people don't need exorcism, they need therapy"

At the beginning of this week, the World Association of Exorcists (AIE) elected a new president ( stern reported). In future, the 53-year-old Czech priest Karel Orlita will lead the association, in which almost 900 exorcists and auxiliary exorcists are organized. But what exactly do these exorcists do in an increasingly enlightened world?

Jörg Müller is a psychotherapist, religious scholar and priest in the parish of Freising near Munich - and he is one of the few clergymen in Germany who publicly admits to performing exorcisms. In an interview with stern magazine, he explains what is true about the cliché of exorcism that we know from horror films, why most people need medical rather than spiritual help, and why we Germans are at war with mysticism.

Mr. Müller, most people associate the term exorcism with what they see in horror films: cramped people tied to a bed, a priest with a raised cross talking to the possessed person, shouting at them - a battle between the priest and a demon. Which of these is actually true?This is an exaggerated, theatrical depiction that does not occur in this form. An exorcism is a ritualized prayer for deliverance in which an attempt is made to exorcise suspected demonic beings. It is often spoken in Latin, but usually in complete silence. Exorcisms are sometimes very boring and laborious.

What does an exorcism actually looklike? The person suspected of being possessed is sprinkled with holy water and a cross is held in front of them. Then a prayer is said and the command is given: "Get out, in the name of God!" This can take up to half an hour. But before all this happens, it is first clarified whether there is a mental illness. Only if all medical examinations remain inconclusive, but there are symptoms that suggest a possession, is an exorcism even an option. Then I check whether there is any truth to the idea of possession. But this happens so quietly and secretly that the patient doesn't even notice it.

How exactly do you go about it?I pray silently, the patient knows nothing about it. If he is possessed, something is stirring now. Then I say I'm praying, but I don't do it and wait to see what happens. I claim that I am sprinkling the patient with holy water, but it is not holy water. So I test whether the patient is lying to himself and to us or not. If he reacts when I bluff, there is no need for an exorcism - and that is the case in most cases. Most people don't need an exorcism, they need therapy.

"Recognizing a demonic being is difficult because there is no evidence"

So how do you recognize a possession?Something always happens during a possession when I pray, bless the patient or sprinkle them with holy water. The patients scream, curse and mock me. Sometimes they speak in languages they have never learned. But even if all this is true, we have to be careful. It is not proof that a demonic being has actually entered the patient.

What are demons anyway?There are a lot of priests today who no longer believe that the demon, the devil, is a personal being. They rather believe in a kind of dynamic of destruction in the soul. I don't care at all whether the demon is a personal being or such a dynamic. For me, the main question is how to help people who show symptoms that nobody can classify.

You are a trained psychotherapist.Doesn't it contradict all science if there is no evidence for something like possession or demons?I can't prove God either, but I believe in him. In the case of a possible possession, I believe that after all the medical examinations there is a residual chance that a demonic force is probably there. And then I pray. If this prayer actually delivers, it is proof enough for me. If several prayers do nothing, the cause of the symptoms is probably psychological.

We clergymen suspect that in very rare cases there may be demonic beings inside a person who are controlling them.However, it is very difficult to recognize this because there is no evidence. It can only be assumed on the basis of the symptoms and the medical diagnosis.

In otherwords, you treat people on the basis of your beliefs -no, of course not. Doctors often send people to us when they don't know what to do. This means that the patients have already undergone a thorough medical examination. The situation is different for people who come to us without seeing a doctor. Recently, a woman came to me claiming to be possessed. However, after a few quick questions, I found out: She is not possessed, but traumatized - she was abused. She reported seeing shadows and even feeling touched at night. This is the former abuser, not a demon.

Abuse is a typical cause of later symptoms that are attributed to possession. Today we know that this is often a so-called dissociation. Fears split off from the psyche. Patients see grimaces or have to swear - all symptoms that would have been attributed to a demon 30 years ago. But this woman is not possessed, she needs trauma therapy.

"The church is failing completely"

Are exorcisms even necessary if most cases can be attributed to mental illness?According to the Freiburg Institute for the Paranormal, a small number of cases probably fall into the area of demonology. This is where the church's service would be useful. But it fails completely. We need a contact point for people who fall off the grid. But there is no officially appointed exorcist in Germany. They could be helped quickly through an assessment by a trained priest - in most cases medically.

What exactly is a possession?Let me give you an example: some time ago, an IT technician from Switzerland came to me with symptoms that could really be attributed to a possession. He was speaking in languages he had never learned. His bed was shaking at night for no apparent reason. With religious objects he was controversial, cursing as if he was coming into contact with fire. He passed all the tests I carried out. The medical examinations had no findings. That means there was something there.

Demons, wobbly beds - can you understand why many people think that this is all humbug? It is indeed all difficult to prove. We Germans are always so empirical and so enlightened, we have no connection to mysticism, we are at war with it. We are simply too proud and arrogant. We always think we know everything better. Sometimes believers are even laughed at here. What kind of intolerant reaction is it to laugh at religion? It's a catastrophe.

Let's assume that there really is such a thing as obsession: Which people are particularly "at risk"? "Generally, it tends to affect those over-adapted people whose image of God is a punitive one. People who keep suppressing their needs, who have never learned to say "no", who have always been easy to please and well-behaved. It is precisely with these people that a hole is created in the psyche into which the demons can poke.

Why should a demon enter a person?A demon wants to destroy. The person and their environment. Often with the trick of making a person particularly pious. So much so that it wears him down.

Exorcisms in US American free churches, which present themselves as very pious, have a particularly dramatic effect. Recordings show hysterical crowds, some participants in such events collapse or suffer seizures while a priest shouts prayers into the crowd with great fervor. Are these even real exorcisms?Such scenes are horrific. It may be that some of these priests are performing an exorcism. But the diagnosis of the people listening is completely unclear. The violent reactions of these people are not evidence of possession, they could just as well be psychotic. You would never exorcize like this - and certainly not in public.