"Transsexuality is completely normal"

After films such as "Thor", "Suicide Squad", "Avengers: Endgame" and "Jojo Rabbit", Taika Waititi is now bringing the unique story of the less successful American Samoa national soccer team to cinemas. However, the actual leading role in the comedy is not played by the sport, but by Jajyah Saelua. Born a man, the trans woman played an important role in the Pacific island's men's team. She is even the first openly transgender person to ever take part in an international soccer match. "Next Goal Wins" is about the national team's only ever victory against Tonga.

Director Waititi and his main character Saelua, played in the film by Kaimana Solai, spoke to ntv.de about the normality of transsexuality in their home region and a lot of self-love.

ntv.de: Mr. Waititi, would you describe yourself as a real soccer fan?

Taika Waititi: Absolutely, soccer is my favorite sport, at least now. I also like rugby, but I like soccer more and I'm a fan of it. But I think world championships in any sport are great. The best from one country compete against the best from another country. That's what makes such tournaments so special, it's a bit like "Harry Potter".

But before filming "Next Goal Wins", you weren't officially a soccer fan ...

Waititi: That's right, something has changed. I appreciate the art of the game and have more patience for it now. I used to watch a game and think: "Where is this going? Nothing happens for so long." They're just running up and down, pretending to be injured and rolling around on the floor. They act a lot. It was more theater than anything else. And then a goal goes in and I think, "Wow!". Now I have more understanding for the game and respect it. It's more like chess.

So if you weren't initially interested in the game itself, was the human factor what interested you in the story?

Waitit: The most important thing for me was actually Jaiyah. The people and their stories. I wanted to go home to the Pacific Islanders and tell stories that are unique to them. I wanted to show the culture, which is unique. And I think I succeeded. Soccer is just another character, it's not the main character. I think stories need to be told, and to make them more interesting you have to embellish them and change details and facts. My job as a storyteller is to write my version.

It is noticeable that within the American Samoa community, it is not an issue that Jaiyah Saelua was born a man. Instead, it's quite normal there. Is that the message you want the movie to convey?

Waititi: Transsexuality is completely normal, and that's why it's not talked about in the movie. It's kind of self-explanatory. We shouldn't always try to explain everything. It's a culture that accepted it a very long time ago. While the West is still trying to control people's bodies, it's much easier to accept it and mind your own business.

Jaiyah Saelua: As African Americans in the Pacific region, it's very comfortable. We play a role in our society and our culture and traditionally have a certain responsibility that comes with that. We accept the fact that we were assigned the male gender at birth and live our lives accordingly. And if that's not the case, it's not taboo. It's not controversial. A big part of the problem that the LGBTQ+ community faces is their inability to acknowledge and accept that and be proud of it. Pride in their ultimate identity. And that's exactly what the Samoan community has done. For centuries, they have been bridging the gap between the Western binary system and their own, where there are more than two genders.

When was the first time you experienced first-hand that this is not the norm and that your homeland is unique in this respect?

Saelua: When I left home and was confronted with prejudice. When I applied to the University of Hawaii. I had already started living as a woman. When I tried out for the men's team as a woman, the coaches wouldn't even let me audition to warm up. They told me that they didn't want to put the team in an awkward situation and sent me home. That was my first experience with real prejudice, and from then on I told myself I would never do that to myself again.

Waititi: We never liked Hawaii anyway, because there are so many American prejudices there. No, that's just a joke, we actually like Hawaii, but it's very Americanized.

"Next Goal Wins" is finally a sports comedy again, like "Cool Runnings" 30 years ago. A movie that still resonates today. Was it a kind of template for you?

Waititi: In a way, yes. "Cool Runnings" was made by a white director about Jamaica, and I think if you look at the movie today, it's probably still a good movie. Even a great movie. I still love it. But I wish now that it had been made by someone who knew more about Jamaica.

You keep saying in public that you yourself are your biggest fan and you cast yourself in your movie. Because no one else could have played the priest better than you?

Waitit: I like saying things like that. I say them all the time because it annoys so many people on the internet. And my favorite thing to do is to piss those people off. I say these things and then I just fall asleep and have a great dream about myself. People think I'm always talking about myself and spend all their energy getting annoyed with me, and that in turn makes me very happy. Living in my world is a mixture of feeling special and feeling great. I enjoy being myself. There is only you. No one else can be you. So that's a pretty unique thing. But it's the same for me as it is for everyone else. There are definitely moments of self-doubt.

In relation to your job as a filmmaker?

Waititi: Yes. How much do I really still want to do this job? I've been doing it for 20 years now. And I don't know if I want to carry on or if it's just social pressure. People expect you to keep going, but only you know your limits. And I sometimes feel like it's getting a bit boring for me. I've achieved a lot and I feel that all the movies I've made so far have been good. This was my eighth movie now. You look at people who overdo it and make 20 movies. Six or seven of them are bad. I don't want to overdo it. I should have stopped a long time ago.

Nicole Ankelmann spoke to Jaiyah Saelua and Taika Waititi

"Next Goal Wins" opens in German cinemas on January 4.